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Old 07-23-2011, 07:18 AM   #151
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Originally Posted by darth meowth View Post
Graf's mode of thinking is not much different than anyone coming in stating a religious devotion to a deity or prophet.
I have to agree with you here. I'll go even further in stating that Graf's mode of thinking follows a perfectly "normal" (as in "within the norm") way of constructing his beliefs. Survival of the species often shows that we use "false-positives" as a mechanism for our thought process. It is less "costly" to use a false assumption in a given circumstance and being wrong on the outcome, than to deny the false assumption even though it may be the actual final outcome. For example, when walking in the woods, you hear some rustling leaves, you imagine two causes: it is only the wind, and it is a bear (or any other predator). If you assume it is a bear, yet it is only wind, you have relied on a false-positive (statisticians and researchers call this a Type I error). You may say, you have erred on the side of caution. On the other hand, if you dismiss the assumption of it being a predator for whatever reason, but are wrong, you have committed a Type II error and are now in the belly of the beast. The cost of being wrong is much greater

We naturally tend to use false-positives, because these rely on automatic reactions learned and ingrained in our behaviour, from teachings and experience, for reasons such as social interaction and survival. That doesn't mean all false-positives are beneficial.

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** The thought process in that regard is more flawed, because at least Graf uses logic (which you may or may not agree with), whereas a religious person goes on what they feel.
I don't totally disagree, but let me qualify what you wrote with my point of view.

You have to differentiate logic from the syntax of logic. The syntax of logic relies on methods and concepts that help (or hinder) the logical thought process. What Graf uses, mostly, are syllogisms. A entails B and B entails C, hence A entails C. That works well if what you are trying to explain can be fully dissociated from the other surrounding factors. When dealing with complex events/issues/problems, these first degree syllogisms explain very little and more often do not demonstrate any logic whatsoever when tested in the whole "system". It can be used as a premise, but not as an affirmation.

Creationism is a vain attempt to use logic to demonstrate the validity of something that, initially, is not based on logic. On the other hand, like any belief (including conspiracy theories), it is explained by patterns observed or experienced. When challenged, more patterns are infused, even created to try to fit the belief in a way it could be acceptable to others.

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**The threshold for evidence is just as low, if not lower, than what Graf is looking for. Graf may choose questionable websites for his information, but at least he is not "seeing Jesus" on his walmart receipt.
It is not that Graf's references link to questionable website. It is the tendency of quoting, analyzing and using anecdotal events to fit them in a predetermined pattern that reinforces his beliefs. When he posts a string of news links with the hope that he is providing yet more "proof", he's pretty much "seeing Jesus" on a piece of burnt toast, and desperately needs to shows. He is an evangelist for his cause.

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Yes. I have read all of Graf's posts. They may be off the wall by most people's standards, but they are not insane. There is a different level of logic and sanity. Certainly not mainstream, true. But certainly not 'fucked in the head.'
I wouldn't go as far as saying it is insane. The breadth of population who adhere to Graf's beliefs is quite amazing. I keep thinking that, to believe in all these conspiracies, these "believers" seem to also believe they have little control over their own lives since everything is part of a grand design they will ultimately have to fall into. It is almost as if these Illuminati/NWO members are human deities. They may be mortal, but their devotion to "the cause" extends beyond their lives. That......... is pretty close to crazy!
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Old 07-23-2011, 09:13 AM   #152
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Anti terror training in oslo norway 48hrs before bombing. White christian right winger killed 91, and he was a freemason. The day before dhs released a training video showing terrorist as younger whites with strong political views. The terrorist are no longer arabs, their whites tired of the government. Peaceful resistance is the only way to fight the establishment.

Watch greece to see whats coming with a government default. Raise taxes, cut social programs, sell off government businesses to private corporations. Good luck to our greek brothers and sisters. Fight the banks, exposed the fraud in cds and derivitives. The banks will own everything. Interest is a lie and the stock market bets against theirselves. Its all the same game.

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Old 07-23-2011, 11:42 AM   #153
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Anti terror training in oslo norway 48hrs before bombing.
Oh, for sanity's sake! At least with the 7/7 bombings you could almost make a case by saying the bombings happened at the same time as the supposed "anti-terror training", but this was two days earlier. You can't even claim this as a diversionary tactic.

I'm willing to bet that there's some form of anti-terror training going on somewhere in Europe pretty much every day.
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Old 07-23-2011, 11:43 AM   #154
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Anti terror training in oslo norway 48hrs before bombing.
How many a year do you think they do? If it had been one or two weeks, or a month before? You see patterns where none exist. With the US hardening their security, softer targets are more likely. Granted, this one may be an internal job, but terror preparedness is prevalent in most countries since 9/11. My ex-BIL is in the Montreal police force SWAT team and they have regular exercises of all kinds, including terror attacks, kidnapping of diplomats, whack-jobs holding people at bay with a weapon, heavily armed drug busts. It's about about....... preparedness. You have to practice to be good at it and not screw up. If you think that whacking a few balls at a driving range and playing 18 holes before playing your first ever tournament means you'll be a contender to win, especially if you've never played, wake up! The patterns you build around events only serve to accomodate your basic belief.

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White christian right winger killed 91, and he was a freemason. The day before dhs released a training video showing terrorist as younger whites with strong political views.
Geez, in the 20 years prior to 9/11, 335 domestic terror attacks were perpetrated on US soil, 250 actually confirmed, the others still under investigation. How many Islamists attacks? Nothing even near 250. Wouldn't it be obvious to prepare more for a domestic attack, especially with the economy being in the state it is?

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The terrorist are no longer arabs, their whites tired of the government.
News flash..... The world has been rid of Islamist terrorists!

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Originally Posted by GrAfFiX2 View Post
Peaceful resistance is the only way to fight the establishment.
Peaceful as in guns and bombs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GrAfFiX2 View Post
Watch greece to see whats coming with a government default. Raise taxes, cut social programs, sell off government businesses to private corporations. Good luck to our greek brothers and sisters. Fight the banks, exposed the fraud in cds and derivitives. The banks will own everything. Interest is a lie and the stock market bets against theirselves. Its all the same game.
... and it's old news..... and it's the fault of the greek government.... and they have a crappy banking system.... and they have rampant tax evasion.... and they have coddled the civil service into extreme complacency and entitlement.

No conspiracy, just plain bad economics, bad politics and bad administration.
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Old 07-23-2011, 11:54 AM   #155
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... and it's old news..... and it's the fault of the greek government.... and they have a crappy banking system.... and they have rampant tax evasion.... and they have coddled the civil service into extreme complacency and entitlement.

No conspiracy, just plain bad economics, bad politics and bad administration.
Indeed. Greece should never have been allowed to adopt the euro, but it's been discovered that they actually lied about the state of their economy in order to get in.
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Old 07-23-2011, 01:41 PM   #156
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Default Re: The Plan

Is the Norway guy the new timothy mcveigh? It smells the same?

This linked article isnt as long as the banking one.
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Old 07-23-2011, 01:48 PM   #157
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Indeed. Greece should never have been allowed to adopt the euro, but it's been discovered that they actually lied about the state of their economy in order to get in.
Who lied? Elected people or the banks. The banks have never ever ever loaned me money without reviewing my finances. Did egypt just revolt for the same kinda government bullshit. Whos next? Libia, syria, ireland, iceland, peru, portugal!??! I know you haved played monopoly, same game, but with countries. Greece bought thier own debt 10-20 times over? Its a scam. Lies and theifs. Money money money money! Like a crackhead trying to get their fix.
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Old 07-23-2011, 02:09 PM   #158
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Orb,

news flash - last number i hear afghan had 4, iraq births they daily, iran, syria, pakistan and israel is full of them.

Old news? Their in line for their second bailout right? Greece will be a third world shortly.

Peacefully as in, killing in the name of peace "war on terror". No!! Peaceful as to connect people and make this a better place. No more raping of the masses for the few. Is 100's of millions a year for bankers a good year? They bounced back real fucking fast didnt they. One day their are flat broke, next quarter - record profits! Hugh bonuses and shareholder profits. They bought their own debt back at pennys on the dollar? Too big to fail got bigger? They run the country. Goldman secretary treasury. 700 billion is the limit for "at a time bailout" . Why couldnt congress question them? The federal reserve was passed on lies and deceite.

The conspiracy fact is it is, the banks, the politicians, and the administration are fucking us!

Still winning!!!
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Old 07-23-2011, 02:59 PM   #159
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Who lied? Elected people or the banks.
Yes. Um, nobody's saying politicians and bankers are paragons of virtue, or even especially nice people. We're saying there's no actual evidence of some kind of top-level world-wide conspiracy to rob ordinary people of their savings and sell us out to the aliens, or whatever. From where I'm sitting, it's a bunch of people acting in their own short-sighted self interest, which is what people always do.

Your own logic doesn't stand up to a moment's scrutiny. One minute you're saying that the fact there was anti-terror training going on a few days before proves that a man going on a killing spree is a government plot; the next, you're saying that the same incident is somebody protesting against the government.
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Old 07-23-2011, 04:14 PM   #160
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Orb,

news flash - last number i hear afghan had 4, iraq births they daily, iran, syria, pakistan and israel is full of them.

Old news? Their in line for their second bailout right? Greece will be a third world shortly.

Peacefully as in, killing in the name of peace "war on terror". No!! Peaceful as to connect people and make this a better place. No more raping of the masses for the few. Is 100's of millions a year for bankers a good year? They bounced back real fucking fast didnt they. One day their are flat broke, next quarter - record profits! Hugh bonuses and shareholder profits. They bought their own debt back at pennys on the dollar? Too big to fail got bigger? They run the country. Goldman secretary treasury. 700 billion is the limit for "at a time bailout" . Why couldnt congress question them? The federal reserve was passed on lies and deceite.

The conspiracy fact is it is, the banks, the politicians, and the administration are fucking us!

Still winning!!!
I simply cannot argue anything in this post because it would have to be written in a form of English that actually made sense. Seriously, just the first "sentence"... what the hell are you saying? I suppose you did win this bit of the argument, but mark my words, if I ever learn the language you used in this post, I will answer back!!!!! So, yes, you and your banana win for the most incomprehensible and misspelt (if that was actually English) post EVER!!!!



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Old 07-23-2011, 04:34 PM   #161
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Default Re: The Plan

Graf,
I would advise structuring your paragraphs and sentences in a way that is more organized. It would seem less scatterbrained if you did. Image is everything.

And it is hard to digest run-on ideas and sentences, which does not help the perception of your argument. I am trying to follow your ideas, but I actually have the stabbing headache in my right temple now that I only get from reading assignments from my students who write at a very very low level. Organization and structure are important.

One tip for you that works for my students. This is one I learned when I was doing my teacher certification training: As you write your script/presentation, let the voice inside your head that is reading the words be a snobby british accent. Indubitably, you will find your writing level will start to conform to the british stereotype of pseudo intellectualism. If what you are writing does not sound intelligent in a british accent, rewrite it until it does. The stereotype forces one to write better. Until you can develop a strong level of structure and prose in your writing that comes naturally, fake it.

Of course, you can do the opposite and ignore how wrong unintelligent or poorly structured writing sounds in a fake british accent. Then the side effect of your writing is comedic in nature. But since I assume you are serious with your ideas Graf, then the method to clean up your writing by faking the accent should work.

Good luck to all of you on all sides of this debate. Keep focused on the content, not the perception of the person writing the ideas.
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Old 07-23-2011, 04:46 PM   #162
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Originally Posted by darth meowth View Post
Keep focused on the content, not the perception of the person writing the ideas.
Hard to get to the content when the container is flawed!
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Old 07-23-2011, 05:13 PM   #163
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...and he was a freemason.
"Was" being the operative word. Maybe he wasn't good enough for them.

News Article
Breivik, who was reportedly a Free Mason at one time, ...

link


There are tons of Free Masons in Europe. Just about every French person I have met is either one or has a father, uncle or cousin who is one. And they have a secret handshake!!!!
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Old 07-25-2011, 08:57 AM   #164
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Keep focused on the content, not the perception of the person writing the ideas.
Okay, fill your boots. You talk content with him and see where it gets you.

I'm completely serious when I suggest his brain is wired wrong.
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Old 07-25-2011, 01:16 PM   #165
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Your own logic doesn't stand up to a moment's scrutiny. One minute you're saying that the fact there was anti-terror training going on a few days before proves that a man going on a killing spree is a government plot; the next, you're saying that the same incident is somebody protesting against the government.

Link to infowars - telegraph link on infowars
During his Channel 4 News broadcast on Friday evening, host Jon Snow asked “why police knew the killer’s name by the time they had arrived on the island,” reported the Telegraph live blog.

“He surrendered the moment police called his name 3 minutes after they arrived. What we don’t know is how the police knew the terrorist’s name before they arrested him,” said Snow, who is recognized as one of Britain’s most trusted news anchors, and cannot be dismissed as a “conspiracy theorist”.

quote from telegraph.co.uk
"17.24 Jon Snow from Channel 4 News asks why police knew the killer's name by the time they had arrived on the island.

Quote "...he surrendered the moment police called his name 3 minutes after they arrived. What we don't know is how the police knew the terrorist's name before they arrested him."


Thats sounds like conspiracy.
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Old 07-25-2011, 01:38 PM   #166
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I simply cannot argue anything in this post because it would have to be written in a form of English that actually made sense. Seriously, just the first "sentence"... what the hell are you saying? I suppose you did win this bit of the argument, but mark my words, if I ever learn the language you used in this post, I will answer back!!!!! So, yes, you and your banana win for the most incomprehensible and misspelt (if that was actually English) post EVER!!!!



dick wad!
Your original quote, what you said.
News flash..... The world has been rid of Islamist terrorists!

its hard to post on a cellphone. just trying to get the idea across, not publish a paper.

news flash - last number i hearD afghan had 4, iraq births theM daily, iran, syria, pakistan and israel is full of them.

{correction abcnews says 100 in afghanistan - U.S. intelligence officials have concluded there are only about 100 al Qaeda fighters in the entire country.]

"GREECE" Old news? Their in line for their second bailout right? Greece will be a third world shortly.

Peacefully as in, killing in the name of peace "war on terror". No!! Peaceful as to connect people and make this a better place.

No more raping of the masses for the few. Is 100's of millions a year for A bankers "SALARY" a good year? They bounced back real fucking fast didn't they. One day their are flat broke, next quarter - record profits! Hugh bonuses and shareholder profits. They bought their own debt back at pennys on the dollar? Too big to fail got bigger?

They run the country.

Goldman treasury secretary timothy geithner. 700 billion is the limit for "at a time bailout" . Why couldn't congress question them?

The federal reserve was passed on lies and deceit.

The conspiracy fact is it is, the banks, the politicians, and the administration are fucking us!
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Old 07-25-2011, 01:44 PM   #167
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sigh.

Al Qaeda is not the threat to the government that has been established in Afghanistan, it's the Taliban. You. Fucking. Moron.
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Old 07-25-2011, 01:48 PM   #168
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"Was" being the operative word. Maybe he wasn't good enough for them.

News Article
Breivik, who was reportedly a Free Mason at one time, ...

link


There are tons of Free Masons in Europe. Just about every French person I have met is either one or has a father, uncle or cousin who is one. And they have a secret handshake!!!!
I like the masons!! I think they do good, and possibly bad.
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Old 07-25-2011, 07:57 PM   #169
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Originally Posted by GrAfFiX2 View Post
Your original quote, what you said.
News flash..... The world has been rid of Islamist terrorists!

its hard to post on a cellphone. just trying to get the idea across, not publish a paper.

news flash - last number i hearD afghan had 4, iraq births theM daily, iran, syria, pakistan and israel is full of them.

{correction abcnews says 100 in afghanistan - U.S. intelligence officials have concluded there are only about 100 al Qaeda fighters in the entire country.]

"GREECE" Old news? Their in line for their second bailout right? Greece will be a third world shortly.

Peacefully as in, killing in the name of peace "war on terror". No!! Peaceful as to connect people and make this a better place.

No more raping of the masses for the few. Is 100's of millions a year for A bankers "SALARY" a good year? They bounced back real fucking fast didn't they. One day their are flat broke, next quarter - record profits! Hugh bonuses and shareholder profits. They bought their own debt back at pennys on the dollar? Too big to fail got bigger?

They run the country.

Goldman treasury secretary timothy geithner. 700 billion is the limit for "at a time bailout" . Why couldn't congress question them?

The federal reserve was passed on lies and deceit.

The conspiracy fact is it is, the banks, the politicians, and the administration are fucking us!
And this is supposed to be more comprehensible than the previous post in what way?
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Old 07-25-2011, 07:59 PM   #170
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Why quote numbers of Al-Qaeda members in Afghanistan? We know they're elsewhere, like Pakistan and Yemen. Those numbers are irrelevant.
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Old 07-25-2011, 09:17 PM   #171
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Wow, seven pages of arguing about nothing. Seinfeld this isn't.
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Old 07-26-2011, 06:30 AM   #172
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Originally Posted by GrAfFiX2 View Post
During his Channel 4 News broadcast on Friday evening, host Jon Snow asked “why police knew the killer’s name by the time they had arrived on the island,” reported the Telegraph live blog.
That would be this tweet.

Then came this follow-up tweet:

Quote:
OK folks I have clarified: It was a mistranslation.Police did NOT call the terrorist's name before his arrest: He just came when they called
They called. They didn't call his name, they just called him.

Quote:
Thats sounds like conspiracy.
It could be a conspiracy. On the other hand, it could be the normal confusion that surrounds fast-moving stories like this, with the added complication in this case of a language barrier.
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Carolyn: Then solve it.
Martin: I can't solve it.
Carolyn: Have you tried to solve it?
Martin: No.
Carolyn: Then you don't know if you can solve it, do you?
Martin: There's a civil war in Mali, so Timbuktu's closed to all air traffic.
Carolyn: Right, so you can't solve it. Douglas, can you solve it?

Cabin Pressure: Timbuktu

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Old 07-30-2011, 01:01 PM   #173
GrAfFiX2
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Default Re: The Plan

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orb View Post
Why quote numbers of Al-Qaeda members in Afghanistan? We know they're elsewhere, like Pakistan and Yemen. Those numbers are irrelevant.
How about lybia rebals we support. Now we might give them a embassey

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...eda-links.html
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Old 07-30-2011, 02:14 PM   #174
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Default Re: The Plan

Welcome to the world of Realpolitik. Support the rebels or support Gaddafi, which option do you think is the least nasty?
__________________
Martin: Guys, there's a problem.
Carolyn: Then solve it.
Martin: I can't solve it.
Carolyn: Have you tried to solve it?
Martin: No.
Carolyn: Then you don't know if you can solve it, do you?
Martin: There's a civil war in Mali, so Timbuktu's closed to all air traffic.
Carolyn: Right, so you can't solve it. Douglas, can you solve it?

Cabin Pressure: Timbuktu

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Old 08-01-2011, 06:20 AM   #175
GrAfFiX2
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Default Re: The Plan

Gaddafi!! His neighbors liked him.

America doesnt like him because Gaddafi didnt want dollars for oil, he wanted gold. I dont blame him. I think the dollar has taken a shit in the last 10 years, well 99 years. QE3 is on its way, we are gonna have to start the printing presses again.
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